promethea.incorporated

brave and steely-eyed and morally pure and a bit terrifying… /testimonials /evil /leet .ask? .ask_long?


somecunttookmyurl:

somecunttookmyurl:

somecunttookmyurl:

somecunttookmyurl:

Hi there. If you’re just waking up

  • Brexit won
  • The £ plummeted to a 30-year low
  • Japan has stopped trading
  • Scotland is pushing for independence
  • Ireland is considering re-unification
  • The Dutch Freedom Party are calling for their own EU referendum

Originally posted by giphy

Well, this took off whilst I went to sleep for a couple of hours.

An update:

  • David Cameron has resigned, a fact I’d never thought I’d be sad about
  • Donald Trump just landed in Scotland, because we haven’t suffered enough
  • Nicola Sturgeon says EU folk are “still welcome in Scotland” and “their contribution is valued”
  • She’s thrown down the gauntlet re: staying in and is petitioning the EU for membership. The result is “democratically unacceptable”
  • “I intend to take all possible steps to give effect to how Scotland voted. In other words, to secure our place in the EU”
  • Statement officially made that second independence referendum “highly likely”
  • The financial markets are a shitshow
  • Vote Leave have ALREADY backtracked on their two defining campaign promises (more money for the NHS, less immigration)
  • A motion of No Confidence has been leveled at Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, who honestly lasted longer than I thought he would
  • The UK have lost £350 billion so far

  • Spain could re-take Gibraltar if they wanted to make a move
  • Morgan Stanley have started the process to move 2,000 investment banking staff from London to Dublin/Frankfurt
  • EU leaders are calling on the UK to get out ASAP
  • The New York stock exchange is down 500 points
  • From the amount wiped off shares, so far, divided by 32m voters… the cost is already at £6,000 per voter
  • Donald Trump has come out in support of the decision to leave, which is how you know we messed up real bad
  • Everything is fucked
  • I’m so sorry

(via rusalkii)

1 week ago · tagged #this goddamn continent · 96,424 notes · source: somecunttookmyurl · .permalink


So you still believe you are ruling the World?

lisp-case-is-why-it-failed:

socialjusticemunchkin:

What if Brexit is the true end of the 20th century? What if instead of a resurgence of atavistic nationalism, this was the beginning of its final death throes?

Imagine Brexit tearing apart Britain as Scotland and Ireland separate into their own countries, London turns into a city-state like a (marginally less totalitarian) Singapore of Europe, hopefully also taking Oxford and Cambridge with it out of the rotten husk of an empire England has turned into.

It would suck horribly for innocent people in England, but it would have a certain spiteful sense of justice and vindication; the R tribe tried to impose its values on tribe U, but instead only managed to destroy its country in the name of making it great again. Nationalism dealing the killing blow to the empire which once ruled half the world. The R tribe relies on looting U regions with its “democracy” to fund the imposition of its reactionary worldview and there could be nothing better than for tribe U to turn R’s tricks against it by showing that exit is a two-way street.

Scotland becoming independent seems like almost a given; Irish unification is promising but London is the truly interesting one. If London were to secede, it would show that the nation-state is powerless in the face of global power. The old borders wouldn’t be safe anymore. If the City’s loyalty lies with the rest of the world instead of people sharing some superficial genetic and cultural characteristics, it might open the floodgates everywhere else as well and slay the 19-20th century leviathan for good.

A lot of people have expressed worry that this would be the resurgence of the nation-state and the end of the internationalist project.

I think this might just as well be the end of the nation-state instead.

The age of the nation-state began at the end of the medieval free cities, as cannons allowed kings of the countryside to enforce their rule on cities as well. The social-cultural construct of the nation-state happened in earnest when the nations began shedding their kings and unifying themselves, and it’s easy to see why people might then conclude that the nation-state is the natural endpoint of history to which things will always revert…

Pardon him, Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.

There is no inherent reason why nation-states would be the natural division of people.

Sure, when one looks at the maps, one can clearly see how Scotland is a naturally different polity than England and trying to forcibly keep them together is just asking for trouble.

But London is naturally different too. What does Sadiq Khan’s city have in common with the English UKIP-voting hordes who were willing to ruin their country because they hate brown people? A language, but San Francisco speaks the same language as London. Geographical location, but Ulster managed to stay separate from Ireland for a long time, and Singapore hasn’t been annexed by Malaysia. Political entity, but brexit has shown that polities can be reshaped by the will of the people constituting them.

Nation-states haven’t been a constant in history, but cities have. Every time it has been technologically and societally possible, humans have flocked together and increased each other’s prosperity with trade and cooperation. Democratic nation-states are economically artificial, kept together by barely disguised force; the Paris Commune was brought down by the king’s cannons, not by its own economic infeasibility. The history of the nation-state can be seen as the countryside gaining a capability to loot the cities, and constructing fictions to support this; now what happens if that capability is gone?

When one looks at the data, cities are clearly a different animal from the countryside. Wealthy, liberal, cosmopolitan, globalist. London has far more things in common with Amsterdam and New York than with the English countryside, and in a sense the relationship between the city and the countryside leeching off it via the nation-state is always inherently under a certain tension; now what happens if this is the last straw?

Why should London be loyal to England, when England has shown itself able and willing to only ever take and take? When Scotland tears apart from the union, London’s northern ally in internationalism will be gone and it will be ever more isolated, surrounded by people who are all too willing to enjoy the fruits of London’s prosperity yet completely unwilling to contribute to it, even the bare minimum amount of not actively sabotaging the things that make such prosperity possible in the first place. The story of Atlas Shrugged is naive in its individualistic hero-worship, but replace the few greater-than-life personalities with millions of people, and Galt’s Gulch with London and it starts making a strange amount of sense.

If London were to leave England to the mess of its own making, it would deal a humiliating blow to the countryside, itself grown fat off the loot from the cities and fearful of immigrants and foreigners, the exact people who created the riches the countryside has for so long been stealing through the ballot box. And it’s not like the cities are even unwilling to share their riches; and it certainly might be different if all the countryside asked for was some money so it doesn’t starve, but the countryside is not satisfied with material sharing; what it truly wants is submission.

Like a classical abusive partner, the countryside has always been telling the city it cannot survive alone, yet in reality only the threat of violence is the only thing maintaining the relationship. The countryside stays at home, growing ever more unemployed and useless, while the city is working hard to feed them both. The countryside continuously stalks the city whenever it leaves the house, suspicious of everything the city is doing with foreigners, prone to jealous fits of anger whenever the city doesn’t submit sufficiently to its will. “What are you doing with those foreigners and immigrants? Do you not love me? I am your only one, nobody else may have you!”

Why doesn’t the city just leave?

As usual, the immediate reason is that the dangers of leaving are greater than the dangers of staying. “Sure, the countryside is under a lot of stress but deep down it loves me and after all, it’s not that bad, at least compared to what it would do to me if I tried to dump it; remember what happened to poor Paris?” But if the countryside grows abusive enough, its threats empty enough, the city’s allies strong enough to protect it from its ex, would the city still stay?

I hope the answer is no, and I hope the last straw will be here and now.

If the countryside is so blatantly willing to impose its rottenness on the cities, let it rot away. If democracy creates reactionary atavistic nation-states, to hell with democratic states then. Tribe R doesn’t create the wealth, yet it will always demand its share. “Buy American!” “Britain first!” “Auslander raus!” “Rajat kiinni!” Tribe R will happily take tribe U’s money, but it will reject its values and seek to impose its own. Via the democratic majority rule of the nation-state this strategy has always seen a degree of success; the amount of liberty that’s legal in cities has always been constrained by the conservative countryside. This is clearly an abusive relationship, now what if the cannon marriage of city and country were finally broken?

If London said “no”, would 2016 idly watch by like 1871? What rhetorical pretzels would the nationalists tie themselves into as “fellow brits” rejected their nightmarish utopia? “But you were supposed to be one of us” they would say, and London would whisper “no”. What if the reactionary populism was shown to be the blatant robbery it is? What if England was left to its own devices, without London’s money and influence? The populists could not make Britain great again; they would trash their own country and come begging for foreign aid at London’s doorstep. Without tribe U, tribe R is nothing but a raving bunch of barbarians. A country made solely of Clinton’s voters would still be a global power; a country made solely of Trump’s voters would be a backwards hellhole.

And if tribe R is willing to tear apart political structures at its whims, I say let them have a taste of their own medicine. If they would split the “artificial fiction” of the EU, let us split the artificial fiction of Britain! Let us leave them to their own devices, wallowing in a misery of their own creation. They had a choice, all of them. They could have followed in the footsteps of the IWW or Adam Smith. Decent people who believed in the common good of international cooperation without borders. Instead they followed the droppings of demagogues and populists and didn’t realize that the trail led over a precipice until it was too late. Don’t tell me they didn’t have a choice. Now the whole Europe stands on the brink, staring down into bloody Hell, all those reactionaries and nationalists and rabble-rousers… and all of a sudden nobody can think of anything to say.

Call their bluff. Show them what they are made of. Show them that the world has new rules now, and new rules. That the mob of the nation-state cannot impose its terms upon the cities any longer. That we would’ve been willing to share our riches if that had been the only thing they asked for, but of course it never truly was about the riches in the first place; no, it was jealousy and fear over our way of life, something they wanted to extinguish just as much as to simply loot.

Let this be the end of the EU, but not the new dawn of the nation-state. Instead…

The end of the nation-state and the new dawn of the free city.

London, be our Lucifer, our morningstar, to bear the light to a brighter future free from the oppression of democratic nationalism, nationalistic democracy!

So you still believe you are superior?

What odds do you put on Scotland getting independence within the next five years?

What’s your distribution over the GDP of the UK in the next ten years?

Also I think you are massively mischaracterizing Tribe R, in a totally unfair and honestly kind of mean-spirited way. I’ve met Trump voters. I don’t think they would turn the country into a backwards hellhole. Trump might, but whether his voters would is less obvious. You seem to think that everyone who might vote for Trump (or BREXIT) must be as bad a Trump or Nigel Farage. Tribe R is not made of evil mutants! They’re not going around, scheming about how to mug cities! They’re scared, and frustrated, and maybe ignorant, but they aren’t evil

Sure, you pay lip service to the “innocent” ones, but then you spend a dozen paragraphs talking about how awful the countryside is. It’s like when SJs go on a long rant about how all men are dangerous and uncontrolled, but they add a little note saying “Oh, but if you’re not like this then you’re fine and this doesn’t apply to you, teehee.”

This whole thing is just… really vindictive. I’m not sure I even disagree with your policy proposals (I have no idea what would happen if London seceded). But, like, the point of London leaving isn’t to punish those stupid poor people for daring to stand up for themselves. 

I know I’m being totally mean and petty and vindictive in this; if I hadn’t been totally fed up with nation-state democracy already Brexit would’ve been a pretty clear last straw. National democracy doesn’t work. This is what happens when you put people of starkly different tribes together and tell them the majority gets to decide. You get populists, looting, reactionaries, cronyism, and all kinds of bullshit.

I’m not from the UK, but Finland has a similar situation with tribe R as well. Why the fuck are they voting on my life? Why the fuck are a bunch of poor people from the provinces voting on my cosmopolitan urbanist opportunities? I’m not against sharing some of the wealth (although even in that department there’s way too much misspending; Finland could literally completely eradicate poverty with UBI and still cut its public sector by 6% of GDP) but I will not. fucking. submit.

The “poor people standing up for themselves” are doing it in a really shitty way. Trump might ruin the country, and he’s exactly the guy those people voted for, so “trump voters would ruin the country” is imo relatively justified considering that they’re voting for the guy who might ruin the country. They want protectionism, they want to reduce immigration, they want subsidies, they want all kinds of evil things.

Why would I owe them anything I don’t owe to a fruit peddler in Accra, or an assembly-line worker in Shenzen? Why would I owe them submission to their parochial values in addition to a huge share of the money they wouldn’t even allow me to make? Why would I owe them my life?

They protest that they are my compatriots, yet I am not anyone’s patriot. They yell that I’m from the same town; yes, they are the people who made a living hell of my childhood. I’m not even seeking to collect reparations for that; all I want is my freedom. All I want is for one country on this polished turd of a planet to not fall for the reactionary horde. One place where I could live free, among people who are not hostile to my very existence. I’m immigrants, I’m foreigners, I’m degenerates and queers and decadence and international trade and unregulated everything and all the things tribe R stands against everywhere. They would be so much happier amongst themselves, and so would I. Why on earth must everyone be locked into these nonconsensual hellholes of nation-states. The language is interesting but in the same way Quenya is; nothing that would entitle anyone to a piece of me. I’m expunging the names and places from my life; and even the accent I want to lose. Any ties they wish to enforce I’m willing to cut as soon as I can. Why would I owe them my life?

Why do we have to get along on pain of violence instead of going our own ways peacefully?

I might say that I’m triggered, if it wasn’t such a massive trivialization of triggers. I’m content-ed, perhaps. This shit. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, and their demands will not stop. They will never be satisfied until everything that makes my life possible is destroyed. They will pile on with endless demands that I must buy domestic pork instead of bolivian beans; that I should stay in my own country; that I owe everything to them; that they should be given the final say in everything about my life; that I have to beg them for mercy and permission alike for the sin of being different; the shadow over finnsmouth is hanging on my life and I’m afraid I can’t escape it before I can get off this planet altogether. Even then the leeches and moochers and bucketcrabs and poppycutters and redwashed rentiers might try to hang on, imposing space regulations from their strongholds on the old planet. And although I’m complaining about leeches and moochers I’d be more than thrilled to give them half of all the money I’ll ever make if that was the only thing they asked for in exchange for my freedom but they are never satisfied with just money no it’s my life they want and freedom must be extinguished.

If the world is so willing to hurt me, why would I owe it anything? My slytherin primary is flaring up really strongly and I’m in full self-defense panic mode. Me and Mine; destroy everything that tries to hurt these. Nothing personal that’s just the way it is just like everyone else “oh you’re harmed so massively by our well-meaning rules well too bad sucks to be you then it’s for the Greater Good and we know what it is not you” and I don’t even seek to destroy them all I want is to escape or fight with the viciousness of a cornered beast until I can yet I can’t because they control the whole world and they have the guns and the ballot boxes and the airwaves and the wiretaps in the backbone and they will keep coming and coming always demanding for more never satisfied while anything is still escaping their grasp and people are lucky to only lose their money for their only sin is having some but no such luck for my kind we are abominations and we must be eradicated for god and country and make everything great again

so yes I’m petty and vindictive because I’m fucking afraid of the normies and there’s nowhere to run and nowhere to hide

(via lisp-case-is-why-it-failed)

1 week ago · tagged #this goddamn continent #bitching about the country of birth · 59 notes · source: socialjusticemunchkin · .permalink


So you still believe you are ruling the World?

mugasofer:

socialjusticemunchkin:

What if Brexit is the true end of the 20th century? What if instead of a resurgence of atavistic nationalism, this was the beginning of its final death throes?

Imagine Brexit tearing apart Britain as Scotland and Ireland separate into their own countries, London turns into a city-state like a (marginally less totalitarian) Singapore of Europe, hopefully also taking Oxford and Cambridge with it out of the rotten husk of an empire England has turned into.

It would suck horribly for innocent people in England, but it would have a certain spiteful sense of justice and vindication; the R tribe tried to impose its values on tribe U, but instead only managed to destroy its country in the name of making it great again. Nationalism dealing the killing blow to the empire which once ruled half the world. The R tribe relies on looting U regions with its “democracy” to fund the imposition of its reactionary worldview and there could be nothing better than for tribe U to turn R’s tricks against it by showing that exit is a two-way street.

Scotland becoming independent seems like almost a given; Irish unification is promising but London is the truly interesting one. If London were to secede, it would show that the nation-state is powerless in the face of global power. The old borders wouldn’t be safe anymore. If the City’s loyalty lies with the rest of the world instead of people sharing some superficial genetic and cultural characteristics, it might open the floodgates everywhere else as well and slay the 19-20th century leviathan for good.

A lot of people have expressed worry that this would be the resurgence of the nation-state and the end of the internationalist project.

I think this might just as well be the end of the nation-state instead.

The age of the nation-state began at the end of the medieval free cities, as cannons allowed kings of the countryside to enforce their rule on cities as well. The social-cultural construct of the nation-state happened in earnest when the nations began shedding their kings and unifying themselves, and it’s easy to see why people might then conclude that the nation-state is the natural endpoint of history to which things will always revert…

Pardon him, Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.

There is no inherent reason why nation-states would be the natural division of people.

Sure, when one looks at the maps, one can clearly see how Scotland is a naturally different polity than England and trying to forcibly keep them together is just asking for trouble.

But London is naturally different too. What does Sadiq Khan’s city have in common with the English UKIP-voting hordes who were willing to ruin their country because they hate brown people? A language, but San Francisco speaks the same language as London. Geographical location, but Ulster managed to stay separate from Ireland for a long time, and Singapore hasn’t been annexed by Malaysia. Political entity, but brexit has shown that polities can be reshaped by the will of the people constituting them.

Nation-states haven’t been a constant in history, but cities have. Every time it has been technologically and societally possible, humans have flocked together and increased each other’s prosperity with trade and cooperation. Democratic nation-states are economically artificial, kept together by barely disguised force; the Paris Commune was brought down by the king’s cannons, not by its own economic infeasibility. The history of the nation-state can be seen as the countryside gaining a capability to loot the cities, and constructing fictions to support this; now what happens if that capability is gone?

When one looks at the data, cities are clearly a different animal from the countryside. Wealthy, liberal, cosmopolitan, globalist. London has far more things in common with Amsterdam and New York than with the English countryside, and in a sense the relationship between the city and the countryside leeching off it via the nation-state is always inherently under a certain tension; now what happens if this is the last straw?

Why should London be loyal to England, when England has shown itself able and willing to only ever take and take? When Scotland tears apart from the union, London’s northern ally in internationalism will be gone and it will be ever more isolated, surrounded by people who are all too willing to enjoy the fruits of London’s prosperity yet completely unwilling to contribute to it, even the bare minimum amount of not actively sabotaging the things that make such prosperity possible in the first place. The story of Atlas Shrugged is naive in its individualistic hero-worship, but replace the few greater-than-life personalities with millions of people, and Galt’s Gulch with London and it starts making a strange amount of sense.

If London were to leave England to the mess of its own making, it would deal a humiliating blow to the countryside, itself grown fat off the loot from the cities and fearful of immigrants and foreigners, the exact people who created the riches the countryside has for so long been stealing through the ballot box. And it’s not like the cities are even unwilling to share their riches; and it certainly might be different if all the countryside asked for was some money so it doesn’t starve, but the countryside is not satisfied with material sharing; what it truly wants is submission.

Like a classical abusive partner, the countryside has always been telling the city it cannot survive alone, yet in reality only the threat of violence is the only thing maintaining the relationship. The countryside stays at home, growing ever more unemployed and useless, while the city is working hard to feed them both. The countryside continuously stalks the city whenever it leaves the house, suspicious of everything the city is doing with foreigners, prone to jealous fits of anger whenever the city doesn’t submit sufficiently to its will. “What are you doing with those foreigners and immigrants? Do you not love me? I am your only one, nobody else may have you!”

Why doesn’t the city just leave?

As usual, the immediate reason is that the dangers of leaving are greater than the dangers of staying. “Sure, the countryside is under a lot of stress but deep down it loves me and after all, it’s not that bad, at least compared to what it would do to me if I tried to dump it; remember what happened to poor Paris?” But if the countryside grows abusive enough, its threats empty enough, the city’s allies strong enough to protect it from its ex, would the city still stay?

I hope the answer is no, and I hope the last straw will be here and now.

If the countryside is so blatantly willing to impose its rottenness on the cities, let it rot away. If democracy creates reactionary atavistic nation-states, to hell with democratic states then. Tribe R doesn’t create the wealth, yet it will always demand its share. “Buy American!” “Britain first!” “Auslander raus!” “Rajat kiinni!” Tribe R will happily take tribe U’s money, but it will reject its values and seek to impose its own. Via the democratic majority rule of the nation-state this strategy has always seen a degree of success; the amount of liberty that’s legal in cities has always been constrained by the conservative countryside. This is clearly an abusive relationship, now what if the cannon marriage of city and country were finally broken?

If London said “no”, would 2016 idly watch by like 1871? What rhetorical pretzels would the nationalists tie themselves into as “fellow brits” rejected their nightmarish utopia? “But you were supposed to be one of us” they would say, and London would whisper “no”. What if the reactionary populism was shown to be the blatant robbery it is? What if England was left to its own devices, without London’s money and influence? The populists could not make Britain great again; they would trash their own country and come begging for foreign aid at London’s doorstep. Without tribe U, tribe R is nothing but a raving bunch of barbarians. A country made solely of Clinton’s voters would still be a global power; a country made solely of Trump’s voters would be a backwards hellhole.

And if tribe R is willing to tear apart political structures at its whims, I say let them have a taste of their own medicine. If they would split the “artificial fiction” of the EU, let us split the artificial fiction of Britain! Let us leave them to their own devices, wallowing in a misery of their own creation. They had a choice, all of them. They could have followed in the footsteps of the IWW or Adam Smith. Decent people who believed in the common good of international cooperation without borders. Instead they followed the droppings of demagogues and populists and didn’t realize that the trail led over a precipice until it was too late. Don’t tell me they didn’t have a choice. Now the whole Europe stands on the brink, staring down into bloody Hell, all those reactionaries and nationalists and rabble-rousers… and all of a sudden nobody can think of anything to say.

Call their bluff. Show them what they are made of. Show them that the world has new rules now, and new rules. That the mob of the nation-state cannot impose its terms upon the cities any longer. That we would’ve been willing to share our riches if that had been the only thing they asked for, but of course it never truly was about the riches in the first place; no, it was jealousy and fear over our way of life, something they wanted to extinguish just as much as to simply loot.

Let this be the end of the EU, but not the new dawn of the nation-state. Instead…

The end of the nation-state and the new dawn of the free city.

London, be our Lucifer, our morningstar, to bear the light to a brighter future free from the oppression of democratic nationalism, nationalistic democracy!

So you still believe you are superior?

I’m not wholly opposed to the idea, but what happens to all the stuff that’s currently controlled by the (wholly notional) “nation-state”? What happens to the armies? What happens to the nukes?

This would be really solid idea if you pound the enormous kinks out of it.

I’d like to give the nukes to London because England would be way too volatile and aggressive, but splitting the nukes and other military materiel according to GDP (yes I’m evil) is pragmatic. As a primary rule, both sides could otherwise mainly keep the stuff falling on their side of the border. Voluntary population transfers should obviously be arranged for those who don’t want to be stuck on the wrong side. The overseas territories could choose which polity they want to belong to: London, England, or independence.

1 week ago · tagged #this goddamn continent #kill the leviathan #domestic abuse cw · 59 notes · source: socialjusticemunchkin · .permalink


The Specter of Open Borders | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty

(econlog.econlib.org)

socialjusticemunchkin:

argumate:

voximperatoris:

@argumate:

Indeed, the nativists I’ve privately and publicly encountered routinely claim we're already in a world of open borders, and insist I’m just a more honest version of Obama or Merkel. […]

The sad reality is that mainstream pro-immigration thinkers favor moving from our current world of 98% closed borders to maybe 97% closed borders.  But xenophobia is so rampant that even these tepid reforms sound like the end of the world to at least a quarter of American natives.  

I think the argument for open borders needs more than a bunch of economists saying it will boost GDP when they have been wrong on such issues before.

There needs to be a vision of the future world, and it needs to be compelling and desirable and attractive to people, even if it’s a little exaggerated.

Telling people your nominal wages will go down but your real purchasing power will increase! sounds bad even if it’s true, and it’s hardly compelling.

When a substantial fraction of the population is already uneasy about current immigration levels, upping them by a factor of 50 or so needs groundwork.

Tying it in with infrastructure projects, perhaps?

Meanwhile we immigrants are like “what the fuck open borders is obviously a compelling and desirable and attractive vision of the future world in itself, why would anyone need any more reason for it?”

(especially when we know how inhumane the asylum process is and how regular immigration quota systems assume DIN-standardized lives instead of crazy trans girls whose backgrounds are as much of a mess as their brains but who have what it actually takes despite lacking in Official Papers)

Now the question is: could we combine open borders with magic inflation tricks to make people’s nominal wages not go down so the silly people will not be upset?

Also, a lot of nativism (at least in Europe) is in peripheral communities where people object to the state-regulated arrival of refugees; but if the asylum system was replaced with simply open borders, pretty much no immigrant would voluntarily move to Shitholiston (where the refugee-hating people tend to be) over the big cities of Westonia (where the immigrant-liking people tend to be). Thus, in a world of open borders many nativists’ exposure to immigrants might actually go down a bit.

1 month ago · tagged #this goddamn continent · 39 notes · source: voximperatoris · .permalink


Open Borders

argumate:

socialjusticemunchkin:

argumate:

(@voximperatoris, @neoliberalism-nightly, @socialjusticemunchkin)

Most people agree that open borders is a desirable end state for humanity, as being able to maintain it is strong evidence of an absence of war and famine and reduced global inequality.

Most people also agree that throwing open the borders overnight would have catastrophic consequences, following which the borders would immediately be closed again.

(The best example of open borders we have in the world today is the EU, and even moderate refugee flows have been sufficient to destabilise this project).

However there are plenty of obvious compromises that could be made, such as increasing immigration quotas by 50% each year, greatly increasing migration while giving plenty of time for societies to adjust and absorb the flow. Or going for easy wins, like opening the border between the US and Canada.

That said, I still can’t help feeling that proponents of open borders are downplaying the changes involved, and the possible consequences.

I mean, @voximperatoris is referencing the Jim Crow south in what appears to be a positive example of a society with a racial underclass employed as servants with lynchings “on a very small scale in the grand scheme of things”. Like, I’m not trying to be snarky but that sounds like something someone might write if they were attempting to satirise the open borders position.

And @socialjusticemunchkin talking approvingly of the improved aesthetics of local inequality compared with global inequality; again, not everyone is going to share that particular aesthetic.

There are also questions of whether increased inequality within a particular society ends up causing more problems (for that society) than increased inequality globally; eg. North Sentinelese appear happier living their current lives than as servants in Silicon Valley, despite the latter being “less unequal”.

Many proponents of open borders have suggested introducing a dual track concept of citizenship, where immigrants would not gain access to the full range of social services available to current citizens. I think this also needs to be taken into account when considering what open borders would do to inequality.

So, to take a slightly different position: if seeking to move towards the abolition (as much as possible) of borders as soon as possible (leaving the obviously superior option of the Archipelago untouched as an even less realistic option: I have a marvellous plan for such an utopia this margin is too narrow to contain) is not desirable, why stop at national borders?

After all, the national borders are highly suspiciously sized. If a peaceful person with no ill intent may not migrate from Morocco to Spain, why should one be allowed to migrate from West Virginia to San Francisco?

The United States is larger than most combinations of two to numerous neighboring countries, and the differences inside the nation are staggering. The borderer regions in the Appalachia are practically third world compared to the city-state opulence of the Bay Area; and the values of the populations could hardly be more different. If poor people with backwards values being theoretically able to immigrate to the places where rich people with modern values live, shouldn’t we be more worried about the fact that any West Virginian who can purchase a plane ticket and find themselves housing and work is allowed to come to San Francisco and even vote in elections, with no border controls and centralized planning and immigration quotas to prevent the undesirable masses from flowing in without restraint? Surely Californian values and the riches and job markets of California are the fruits of the Californians’ labor, not something an Appalachian borderer may come to feast on whenever they feel like?

But furthermore, even within California we see stark differences! One does not need to venture too far inland to find different cultures and economies. Even if we build a wall around California, the problem persists; the Six Californias plan would have created both the richest and the poorest state of the Union, right next to each other! And indeed we are seeing the phenomenon of Central Californians flocking in to the Bay Area in search of work, the inevitable shantytowns kept away only by regulations that make it illegal for outsiders to ever have affordable housing. Surely it would be better to constrain this perversion and inequality machine, and establish a national border between the regions so that Silicon Valley may use 0.7% of is GDP in foreign aid to its impoverished neighbor and the shantytowns stay in Central California where they belong!

Yet even this is not enough! The neighborhood of Bayview-Hunters Point is notorious for being a honest-to-azathoth shantytown, with a racial distinction as sharp as it can ever be, right next to San Francisco itself. And indeed the denizens ever seek opportunities in the city proper, bringing their shantytownness and cheap labor downtown, driving down the wages of the hard-working residents of SoMa who, without this artificial mobility benefiting only the tech elite, could otherwise be making $50k a year even from burger-flipping! Not to mention all the services that fall under the general category of “servants to software developers” which would not be worth the genuine fair living wage of $30 an hour; the existence of this underpaid underclass allows the software developers to avoid doing their own shopping and driving and cooking and such things and instead use their time for the thing that is their comparative advantage, further driving up inequality when the equalizing effect of inefficient non-division of labor is reduced!

Indeed I say; let us restore all the borders! Back before this “enlightenment” and “emancipation” and such things, people knew their place and they would die on the same plot of land they were born onto. Let each family be bound to their own turf, never even imposing on their neighbor! Let us be truly honest in what we seek and end this charade; bring back serfdom! For only with the complete immobility of the populace, can a truly stable and equal and peaceful society be established. In our village, everyone is equal, looks the same and shares the same customs; and while we know that not every village is as prosperous as ours, we dutifully kind of pay our 0.7% of indulgences I mean aid to the Catholic Church which surely distributes it fairly to the poorest of the world instead of building a golden toilet for the pope; we have not verified this for only the Baron may ever leave this territory, but surely the virtous Church has the interests of all of us in mind!

Yes this is amusing, but it would be more amusing if China didn’t already have controls over household registration limiting internal migration and leading to a situation of illegal migrant workers within the country moving from one province to another.

Most nations aspire to free movement of people within the national borders by having an economy resilient enough to handle such movement and consider it a flaw if it cannot be achieved.

Similarly, the lack of open borders in the world is clearly a flaw that would be rectified if conditions were better.

So, to make a more sincere argument; the whole issue would seem to basically boil down to “will assholes stop us from having the utopia we deserve, and if so, how to manipulate the assholes to stop stopping it?”

Morally I support drastic increases in mobility immediately simply because I’m viscerally offended that someone’s birth should determine their fate (and as someone who was born in Shitholeston, FI, EU, I consider it an extremely natural entitlement that I personally can “just leave” and go wherever the fuck I please because I’ve had a lot of reason to “just leave” everywhere; I can’t stand the idea that I would not be allowed to do it, I can’t stand the idea that unlike me, others wouldn’t be allowed to do it, thus there is only one option left) and there is a certain inhuman brutality inherent in policing borders. Just like the drug war boils down to kidnapping poor people, closed borders boils down to shooting at poor people for the crime of not wanting to be where The Powers That Be have determined is their Proper Place, and any and all subversive activities to undermine this structure are emotionally laudable and a triumph of the human spirit against attempts to shackle it to the mob’s oppressive whims. (Aaand I noticed that “illegal” immigrants are Formidable in the “Formidable-Pitiful; Good-Evil” alignment system my brain apparently operates on)

And China is basically The failure mode; as an evil authoritarian superpower of a billion people it’s the epitome of treating people as product, and it’s optimizing for the State, not for the people. (insert comment about “future society: thought control” instead of “future society: eudaimonic”) It is a Violation! Of! Liberty! (and fairness, and my brain believes that in aggregate of harm too; screw the dark moral foundations) to tell anyone that they may not go where they want because the State has decided they are, via the guilt of association, Undesirable.

Obviously, I’d like to be a Fnargl who can just be so absolutely unchallengedly sovereign that what the xenophobic assholes think doesn’t matter a single bit, but since I’m not a Fnargl (YGM) the need for pragmatism is obvious. And pragmatically I’d support a diversity of approaches to see which one of them works the best; we should implement a more liberal approach in some places and a more conservative approach in others. For the immigration experiment the US is an obvious location for erring on the side of openness while the EU is a more natural candidate for a more restrictive approach (mostly because this goddamn continent is built on the values of shameless xenophobia and parochialism).

1 month ago · tagged #this goddamn continent #the best heuristic for oppressed people since sharp stick time · 73 notes · source: argumate · .permalink


metagorgon:

knight-errant-of-chaos:

onedoomedspacemarine:

bagged-a-bazooka:

Europeans: Haha those dumb Americans voting for Trump!

*Ignores Golden Dawn in Greece*

*Ignores UKIP in Britain*

*Ignores Swedish Democrats*

*Ignores Svoboda in Ukraine*

*Ignores AfD in Germany*

*Ignores the 80+ other fascist groups in Europe that have been gaining traction*

Europeans: Stupid Americans don’t you know that we made racism illegal in 1881 :) No racism in Europe :)

I really do hold a lot of loathing for this continent.

I’ve seen blatant neo nazi rallies in my city on a few separate occasions with signs like “Hitler was right”. Pretty much everybody just walked past without batting an eyelid.

something something banality of evil

(via metagorgon)

2 months ago · tagged #this goddamn continent #nazis cw #nothing to add but tags · 38,177 notes · source: bagged-a-bazooka · .permalink


THE DECLINING TASTE OF THE GLOBAL SUPER-RICH

(currentaffairs.org)

exsecant:

bluesette:

thathopeyetlives:

bluesette:

maxiesatanofficial:

I have… mixed feelings about this article? For one, it denigrates both (admittedly masturbatory) avant-garde works and popular works in favor of a very narrow view of High Art, which I’m not fond of; there is also, perhaps unintentionally, a tone of nostalgia and longing for kings and robber barons, their “better taste” justifying their equally terrible (if not worse!) political/economic actions.

It’s an interesting topic but the actual execution feels very poor + simplistic.

Yeah this article takes a bunch of interesting topics and does just about the least interesting thing it could with them.

The trend among the super rich to seek out populist cultural experiences is important, but not in the way that the author thinks it is. The fact that dictators listen to the same pop stars as their citizens but can also afford glamorous private concerts with those stars says something about the way displays of power work in the modern age. There’s a reason they’re not building opera halls, and it’s not just a matter of taste.

That… doesn’t seem quite right. 


(I remember opera in recent times as being popular with Literally Everybody Who Can Perform The Upper Class Identity Temporarily, which can be anywhere from the top 10% to top 50% of the population, and individual songs or light opera, and burlesque that grew up in parody of it, being even more widely popular)


There would seem to be three or four broad categories: Modern Popular, Traditional, Modern Intellectual, and the Anti-Art offshoot of Modern Intellectual. 

Modern Popular is usually opposed to Traditional on the basis of modern snobbery, but from my (Reactionary Reconstructionist) point of view Modern Popular is actually pretty close to Traditional, at least when the totally unmoored wierd shit category is removed. 


Also a lot of people forget that the lower-class forms of Traditional ever existed. 

A fucking ugly yacht painted in dazzle camoflauge is opposed to both Traditional and to Modern Popular. 

Maybe it’s because I’m feeling pretty sick right now but I’m not really clear how this disagrees with my post. I meant that having your name attached to an opera used to be an effective way of showing you’re a big deal, but these days having Beyonce play at your wedding works much better. The article attributing everything to personal taste is missing the meaty stuff. Not my best phrasing up there though.


Edit: okay just reread and I can totally see how my post came across. I didn’t mean to imply that opera was never popular.

Excuse my amateur history and sociology here, but isn’t that just a facet of the decreasing popularity of patronage* systems in general? Rich people used to show off their wealth by sponsoring artists and musicians long-term, but now it’s more fashionable to shop around and to know what you’re getting before you buy it.

This seems like a result of consumerism (I guess this is the best word available for the not-capitalism-but-associated-with-it thing that academics call capitalism or neoliberalism sometimes?) and larger urban centers. There are far more works of art and entertainment available, so why would you sponsor a single artist or musician for years when there are hundreds of equally deserving creators out there? Especially since it’s become much higher-status to be seen as a buyer and consumer.

*Patreon is a really far cry from Maecenas and Vergil for reasons I won’t go into because I’m tired and should probably be writing proofs not shitty history speculation. Mostly just the degree of commitment and the level of showing off involved. Also, not to be confused with the Roman patronage system that was actually called a patronage system–that was more like a hierarchical kin network without the blood relations, and had nothing to do with art.

Put bluntly, the upper class just aren’t as classy as they used to be.

So too has public funding for high art taken a beating. While Americans might yearn for the sort of well-funded public arts programs they imagine Europeans prioritize, the reality is much bleaker. Despite Europe’s zealous emphasis on promoting a rich culture for a united continent, the European Union is constantly hacking away at centuries-old institutions in the name of belt-tightening.

I am quite irritated at these “old Art is dying because nobody wants to pay for it” thinkpieces.

Austerity is hurting opera? Why should I care, austerity is hurting people too and people are far more important than opera. 

The state isn’t funding enough High Art?

Let the people choose the art they want to have, and if they are Wrong, anyone is free to try to do differently. Every euro in public funding for the arts is an euro not in the pockets of basic income recipients, and the stuff we europeans use the art money on is pretty bullshit. The government has no place deciding what art is worthy of support and what isn’t.

2 months ago · tagged #the best heuristic for oppressed people since sharp stick time #this goddamn continent · 63 notes · source: averyterrible · .permalink


As a future emigrant from this goddamn continent, this is a 100% accurate description of our politics, and this is why anything even slightly resembling patriotism causes any sane european to back off slowly while maintaining eye contact and nodding...

As a future emigrant from this goddamn continent, this is a 100% accurate description of our politics, and this is why anything even slightly resembling patriotism causes any sane european to back off slowly while maintaining eye contact and nodding and smiling noncommittally.

It’s not you americans, it’s our centuries of trauma around the topic because we’re used to manure hitting the windmill everytime someone tries patriotism because “this time it will totally work differently” has so far universally always meant “the symbols and possibly the colors and perhaps even the slogans will be slightly altered so they don’t pattern-match too easily to every previous disastrous attempt at experimenting with patriotism ever”. And still the people haven’t learned that europeans shouldn’t be allowed to handle patriotism without being protected by both a hazmat suit and an enclave power armor.

(via ozymandias271)

2 months ago · tagged #this goddamn continent #nazis cw · 2,774 notes · source: twitter.com · .permalink


argumate:

oblivionnecroninja:

ellisif:

class-struggle-anarchism:

Just in case anyone still hasn’t come across that Der Spiegel interview in which Slavoj Zizek basically outs himself as a “New Right” thinker, here are some quotes from it:

“Why do we Europeans feel that our unfortunate situation is a full-fledged crisis? I think what we are feeling is not a question of yes or no to capitalism, but that of the future of our Western democracy. Something dark is forming on the horizon and the first wind storms have already reached us.”

“I am a eurocentric leftist. It has become fashionable in leftist circles to criticize eurocentrism in the name of multiculturalism. But I am convinced that we need Europe more than ever. Just imagine a world without Europe.”

“There is no way back to communism. Stalinism was in a certain sense worse than fascism, especially considering that the communist ideal was for Enlightenment to ultimately result in the self-liberation of the people. But that’s also the tragedy of the dialectic of Enlightenment. Stalinism still remains a puzzle to me. Fascism never had Enlightenment ambitions, it exclusively pursued conservative modernization using criminal means. To some extent, Hitler wasn’t radical or violent enough.”

“We feel too guilty in Europe – our multicultural tolerance is the effluent of a bad conscience, of a guilt complex that could cause Europe to perish.”

“It becomes an explosive problem if two ethnic or religious groups live together in close vicinity who have irreconcilable ways of life and, as such, perceive criticism of their religion or way of life as being an attack on their very identity.”

“What we need is what the Germans call a Leitkultur, a higher leading culture that regulates the way in which the subcultures interact. Multiculturalism, with its mutual respect for the sensitivities of the others, no longer works when it gets to this “impossible-à-supporter” stage…That’s why I, as a Leftist, argue that we need to create our own leading culture.”

literally MURDER this piece of shit

Germans are NOT ALLOWED to talk about ideas like that.

For obvious reasons.

Zizek is Slovenian

Europeans are NOT ALLOWED to talk about ideas like that.

2 months ago · tagged #this goddamn continent · 622 notes · source: class-struggle-anarchism · .permalink


binghsien:

Another political myth I’d love to put to bed: That European politicians are somehow _way more leftist_ than US politicians.

The answer is, as always, it depends on the issue.

On the issue of provision of social services to citizens? Yeah, Western Europe is way to the left of Elizabeth Warren.

In the issue of immigration and immigrant’s rights? Europe is well to the right of Donald Trump.

Free Speech? We’re well to the left of not just Europe, but the whole globe.

Freedom of Religion? Good lord most European States include tithes in your taxes. Europe passes minaret bans and hijab bans and burns down synagogues.

Women’s rights? Really varies country by country.

So. It depends on the issue. A lot.

(via wirehead-wannabe)

3 months ago · tagged #this goddamn continent #bitching about the country of birth #nothing to add but tags #i really like how simply categorizing this signals my opinion #very effectively · 907 notes · source: binghsien · .permalink


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