promethea.incorporated

brave and steely-eyed and morally pure and a bit terrifying… /testimonials /evil /leet .ask? .ask_long?


Enforcing the Law Is Inherently Violent

(theatlantic.com)

molibdenita:

socialjusticemunchkin:

rendakuenthusiast:

funereal-disease:

guerrillamamamedicine:

Law professors and lawyers instinctively shy away from considering the problem of law’s violence.  Every law is violent.  We try not to think about this, but we should.  On the first day of law school, I tell my Contracts students never to argue for invoking the power of law except in a cause for which they are willing to kill. They are suitably astonished, and often annoyed. But I point out that even a breach of contract requires a judicial remedy; and if the breacher will not pay damages, the sheriff will sequester his house and goods; and if he resists the forced sale of his property, the sheriff might have to shoot him.

This is by no means an argument against having laws.


It is an argument for a degree of humility as we choose which of the many things we may not like to make illegal. Behind every exercise of law stands the sheriff – or the SWAT team – or if necessary the National Guard. Is this an exaggeration? Ask the family of Eric Garner, who died as a result of a decision to crack down on the sale of untaxed cigarettes. That’s the crime for which he was being arrested. Yes, yes, the police were the proximate cause of his death, but the crackdown was a political decree.

The statute or regulation we like best carries the same risk that some violator will die at the hands of a law enforcement officer who will go too far. And whether that officer acts out of overzealousness, recklessness, or simply the need to make a fast choice to do the job right, the violence inherent in law will be on display. This seems to me the fundamental problem that none of us who do law for a living want to face.  

But all of us should.

It is an argument for a degree of humility as we choose which of the many things we may not like to make illegal.

I’m a fan of Conor Friedersdorf’s brand of libertarianism.

Are any readers persuaded by the notion that some laws they would otherwise support are better repealed, or never passed, because the benefits do not justify the violence that is likely to be triggered, sooner or later, by attempts at enforcement?

Some laws? Maybe. All laws? Well, I wouldn’t want to beat Bernie Madoff to death, but I still think he should be in jail – so, I guess not?

And if we’re going to invoke unintended consequences, I might as well mention that a weak rule of law can lead to unethical business practices (e.g., breaking your debtors’ legs), vigilante mobs and even civil war – so, is not enforcing the law also inherently violent?

I don’t want Madoff to be in jail, I want him to pay back the stuff he scammed and to work for a sufficient fraction of the rest of his life in the most profitable job he can while losing almost all of that money to those he hurt. Him rotting in jail helps nobody, and only hurts both him and innocent people who are forced to pay for keeping him there.

And ultimately everything is inherently violent. It’s violence all the way down; the only question is how to minimize it so that as much non-violence as possible can be built on top. And when it comes to that, handing the democratic mob a ready and simple tool to do violence to those who do things the mob doesn’t like.

@cassisscared: “No, at least to OP, because in most cases of application of a law violence is never involved; in most cases it is no-one dies. Deciding whether to use a tool based on one of the worst-case outcomes of that tool is just bad decision-making.”

I think this is kind of non-relevant; most of the time people submit to laws because they know that violence will ensue if they don’t. If it wasn’t about violence people could be just asked to not/do things.

One could construct a similar argument that the mafia collecting protection payments is mostly non-violent as in most cases nobody gets hurt.

And I don’t think it’s just about the worst-case outcomes; it’s (at least my version is) more about the fact that it adds violence to the universe and ends up doing coercion, which is bad because it forces people to do things against their will which is Obviously Terrible . Coercion is hard to minimize if it’s widely accepted that people may impose arbitrary coercion just because they like/don’t like something. There’s an empirical claim that more generally reducing people’s ability to make certain kinds of laws might end up making the world better even if it causes some harmful effects (because you can never have a perfect utopia). Strong constitutions, limited government in both scope and intrusiveness, etc. would make it harder to make many kinds of laws but if they are calibrated to mostly affect the kinds of laws the making of which is a predictably bad idea they would quite likely be a good thing.

4 days ago · tagged #the best heuristic for oppressed people since sharp stick time · 394 notes · source: The Atlantic · .permalink


Enforcing the Law Is Inherently Violent

(theatlantic.com)

rendakuenthusiast:

funereal-disease:

guerrillamamamedicine:

Law professors and lawyers instinctively shy away from considering the problem of law’s violence.  Every law is violent.  We try not to think about this, but we should.  On the first day of law school, I tell my Contracts students never to argue for invoking the power of law except in a cause for which they are willing to kill. They are suitably astonished, and often annoyed. But I point out that even a breach of contract requires a judicial remedy; and if the breacher will not pay damages, the sheriff will sequester his house and goods; and if he resists the forced sale of his property, the sheriff might have to shoot him.

This is by no means an argument against having laws.


It is an argument for a degree of humility as we choose which of the many things we may not like to make illegal. Behind every exercise of law stands the sheriff – or the SWAT team – or if necessary the National Guard. Is this an exaggeration? Ask the family of Eric Garner, who died as a result of a decision to crack down on the sale of untaxed cigarettes. That’s the crime for which he was being arrested. Yes, yes, the police were the proximate cause of his death, but the crackdown was a political decree.

The statute or regulation we like best carries the same risk that some violator will die at the hands of a law enforcement officer who will go too far. And whether that officer acts out of overzealousness, recklessness, or simply the need to make a fast choice to do the job right, the violence inherent in law will be on display. This seems to me the fundamental problem that none of us who do law for a living want to face.  

But all of us should.

It is an argument for a degree of humility as we choose which of the many things we may not like to make illegal.

I’m a fan of Conor Friedersdorf’s brand of libertarianism.

Are any readers persuaded by the notion that some laws they would otherwise support are better repealed, or never passed, because the benefits do not justify the violence that is likely to be triggered, sooner or later, by attempts at enforcement?

(via nonternary)

5 days ago · tagged #it me #already 100% persuaded a long time ago #the best heuristic for oppressed people since sharp stick time · 394 notes · source: The Atlantic · .permalink


collapsedsquid:

invertedporcupine:

Unsurprisingly, I’ve seen a uptick in complaints about nationalism lately.  I’d like to take a bit to defend it here, which you might not expect given my liberal-to-liberaltarian leanings.  (The following is mostly not original thought, but it’s not clear to me that many people have actually read Ernst Gellner, Benedict Anderson, Mill v. Acton, etc.)

I think people make a mistake when they conflate “nationalism” with “blood-and-soil ethnic chauvinism”.  If you take a minimal functional definition of nationalism (in the way that a state can do many things, but the definition of what it is is just the monopoly on the legitimate use of force), nationalism is just the principle that “political boundaries should coincide with national ones,” whether the later be ethnic, cultural, or civic in nature.  In this sense (putting aside anarchism), your only two choices are to be a nationalist or an imperialist, since not accepting the nationalist principle implies belief that a central state can have legitimate political authority over peripheral territories that don’t constitute the same nation as the center.

I don’t mean to say here that I think the choice of nationalism over imperialism is the obvious one; only that these should be the terms of the actual debate over what is at stake: is the freedom of the citizenry/the utility of the population inside and outside of one’s own national boundaries maximized by drawing the political lines in the same place as the national ones, or not?

What the defining characteristics of the nation should be is a separate, arguably subordinate debate.  As a liberal, civic nationalist, it pains me to see my center-left fellows ceding the theoretical ground to the uglier elements of the right, allowing the latter to define nations in ethnic terms, and embracing imperialism, if only by default and by accident.  This is how you end up with liberal internationalists who become difficult to distinguish from neoconservatives.

@deusvulture @argumate

The issue here applies within nations as well.  Nations will do things that affect other nations, and as long as that’s the case, there’s going to be some way of settling disputes between them.

And, I mean, this sort of thing is meant to basically be federalism, and I’m not sure how your framework interprets, say, the role of California in the United States and then maybe the role of San Fransisco in California. Is it imperialist to have California governed by the United States? This seems to reduce to calling any government at all imperialist, which makes it not really distinguishable from nationalism apart from what arbitrary level you assume governance should happen in.

In this sense (putting aside anarchism), your only two choices are to be a nationalist or an imperialist, since not accepting the nationalist principle implies belief that a central state can have legitimate political authority over peripheral territories that don’t constitute the same nation as the center.

Is it imperialist to have California governed by the United States? This seems to reduce to calling any government at all imperialist, which makes it not really distinguishable from nationalism apart from what arbitrary level you assume governance should happen in.

And then there are us who consider this a feature, not a bug; the most vulnerable minority being the individual and all that. It doesn’t stop being external imposition by aliens with a foreign culture and foreign values just because they are spatially and genetically closer than other aliens. Recognizing that all government is inherently imperialism in this sense goes a long way in the harm-reduction department. And thus nationalism is evil because it privileges a certain level of imperialism as pure and good and commendable.

6 days ago · tagged #the best heuristic for oppressed people since sharp stick time #this is a nationalism hateblog · 20 notes · source: invertedporcupine · .permalink


Anonymous asked: What IS "#the best heuristic for oppressed people since sharp stick time"?

Libertarianism/anarchism. Most of people’s problems have been created, or made worse, by government violence, and just removing the government violence from them would help a lot. Obviously not perfect, but when one is in a hole one should stop digging first.

The sharp stick time is about how the instant animals discovered that they could use violence to maintain positions of power and make others submit to them things went to shit, and now we’re painfully trying to climb out.

And a lot of things are really tempting targets for government intervention, but usually such intervention ends up just making things horrible in a different way. The government shouldn’t regulate people’s personal lives (not that much anything else either, but personal lives are extra-big in this) even where it would seem like a really great idea to regulate because there’s absolutely no way to know what things they end up destroying with their regulations. Poor people need economic opportunities, not massive paperwork they may be cognitively incapable of properly processing in welfare and employment alike; trans people need bodily autonomy, not gatekeeping monopoly clinics; sex workers need freedom and safety, not paternalistic licensing or prohibitionism; refugees need permission to come to the west and work if they can, not arduous asylum application agony; etc.

And thus my category tag for freedom, especially in personal life, was born.

1 week ago · tagged #the best heuristic for oppressed people since sharp stick time · 4 notes · .permalink


So you still believe you are ruling the World?

injygo:

socialjusticemunchkin:

rocketverliden:

thathopeyetlives:

socialjusticemunchkin:

lisp-case-is-why-it-failed:

socialjusticemunchkin:

What if Brexit is the true end of the 20th century? What if instead of a resurgence of atavistic nationalism, this was the beginning of its final death throes?

Imagine Brexit tearing apart Britain as Scotland and Ireland separate into their own countries, London turns into a city-state like a (marginally less totalitarian) Singapore of Europe, hopefully also taking Oxford and Cambridge with it out of the rotten husk of an empire England has turned into.

It would suck horribly for innocent people in England, but it would have a certain spiteful sense of justice and vindication; the R tribe tried to impose its values on tribe U, but instead only managed to destroy its country in the name of making it great again. Nationalism dealing the killing blow to the empire which once ruled half the world. The R tribe relies on looting U regions with its “democracy” to fund the imposition of its reactionary worldview and there could be nothing better than for tribe U to turn R’s tricks against it by showing that exit is a two-way street.

Scotland becoming independent seems like almost a given; Irish unification is promising but London is the truly interesting one. If London were to secede, it would show that the nation-state is powerless in the face of global power. The old borders wouldn’t be safe anymore. If the City’s loyalty lies with the rest of the world instead of people sharing some superficial genetic and cultural characteristics, it might open the floodgates everywhere else as well and slay the 19-20th century leviathan for good.

A lot of people have expressed worry that this would be the resurgence of the nation-state and the end of the internationalist project.

I think this might just as well be the end of the nation-state instead.

The age of the nation-state began at the end of the medieval free cities, as cannons allowed kings of the countryside to enforce their rule on cities as well. The social-cultural construct of the nation-state happened in earnest when the nations began shedding their kings and unifying themselves, and it’s easy to see why people might then conclude that the nation-state is the natural endpoint of history to which things will always revert…

Pardon him, Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.

There is no inherent reason why nation-states would be the natural division of people.

Sure, when one looks at the maps, one can clearly see how Scotland is a naturally different polity than England and trying to forcibly keep them together is just asking for trouble.

But London is naturally different too. What does Sadiq Khan’s city have in common with the English UKIP-voting hordes who were willing to ruin their country because they hate brown people? A language, but San Francisco speaks the same language as London. Geographical location, but Ulster managed to stay separate from Ireland for a long time, and Singapore hasn’t been annexed by Malaysia. Political entity, but brexit has shown that polities can be reshaped by the will of the people constituting them.

Nation-states haven’t been a constant in history, but cities have. Every time it has been technologically and societally possible, humans have flocked together and increased each other’s prosperity with trade and cooperation. Democratic nation-states are economically artificial, kept together by barely disguised force; the Paris Commune was brought down by the king’s cannons, not by its own economic infeasibility. The history of the nation-state can be seen as the countryside gaining a capability to loot the cities, and constructing fictions to support this; now what happens if that capability is gone?

When one looks at the data, cities are clearly a different animal from the countryside. Wealthy, liberal, cosmopolitan, globalist. London has far more things in common with Amsterdam and New York than with the English countryside, and in a sense the relationship between the city and the countryside leeching off it via the nation-state is always inherently under a certain tension; now what happens if this is the last straw?

Why should London be loyal to England, when England has shown itself able and willing to only ever take and take? When Scotland tears apart from the union, London’s northern ally in internationalism will be gone and it will be ever more isolated, surrounded by people who are all too willing to enjoy the fruits of London’s prosperity yet completely unwilling to contribute to it, even the bare minimum amount of not actively sabotaging the things that make such prosperity possible in the first place. The story of Atlas Shrugged is naive in its individualistic hero-worship, but replace the few greater-than-life personalities with millions of people, and Galt’s Gulch with London and it starts making a strange amount of sense.

If London were to leave England to the mess of its own making, it would deal a humiliating blow to the countryside, itself grown fat off the loot from the cities and fearful of immigrants and foreigners, the exact people who created the riches the countryside has for so long been stealing through the ballot box. And it’s not like the cities are even unwilling to share their riches; and it certainly might be different if all the countryside asked for was some money so it doesn’t starve, but the countryside is not satisfied with material sharing; what it truly wants is submission.

Like a classical abusive partner, the countryside has always been telling the city it cannot survive alone, yet in reality only the threat of violence is the only thing maintaining the relationship. The countryside stays at home, growing ever more unemployed and useless, while the city is working hard to feed them both. The countryside continuously stalks the city whenever it leaves the house, suspicious of everything the city is doing with foreigners, prone to jealous fits of anger whenever the city doesn’t submit sufficiently to its will. “What are you doing with those foreigners and immigrants? Do you not love me? I am your only one, nobody else may have you!”

Why doesn’t the city just leave?

As usual, the immediate reason is that the dangers of leaving are greater than the dangers of staying. “Sure, the countryside is under a lot of stress but deep down it loves me and after all, it’s not that bad, at least compared to what it would do to me if I tried to dump it; remember what happened to poor Paris?” But if the countryside grows abusive enough, its threats empty enough, the city’s allies strong enough to protect it from its ex, would the city still stay?

I hope the answer is no, and I hope the last straw will be here and now.

If the countryside is so blatantly willing to impose its rottenness on the cities, let it rot away. If democracy creates reactionary atavistic nation-states, to hell with democratic states then. Tribe R doesn’t create the wealth, yet it will always demand its share. “Buy American!” “Britain first!” “Auslander raus!” “Rajat kiinni!” Tribe R will happily take tribe U’s money, but it will reject its values and seek to impose its own. Via the democratic majority rule of the nation-state this strategy has always seen a degree of success; the amount of liberty that’s legal in cities has always been constrained by the conservative countryside. This is clearly an abusive relationship, now what if the cannon marriage of city and country were finally broken?

If London said “no”, would 2016 idly watch by like 1871? What rhetorical pretzels would the nationalists tie themselves into as “fellow brits” rejected their nightmarish utopia? “But you were supposed to be one of us” they would say, and London would whisper “no”. What if the reactionary populism was shown to be the blatant robbery it is? What if England was left to its own devices, without London’s money and influence? The populists could not make Britain great again; they would trash their own country and come begging for foreign aid at London’s doorstep. Without tribe U, tribe R is nothing but a raving bunch of barbarians. A country made solely of Clinton’s voters would still be a global power; a country made solely of Trump’s voters would be a backwards hellhole.

And if tribe R is willing to tear apart political structures at its whims, I say let them have a taste of their own medicine. If they would split the “artificial fiction” of the EU, let us split the artificial fiction of Britain! Let us leave them to their own devices, wallowing in a misery of their own creation. They had a choice, all of them. They could have followed in the footsteps of the IWW or Adam Smith. Decent people who believed in the common good of international cooperation without borders. Instead they followed the droppings of demagogues and populists and didn’t realize that the trail led over a precipice until it was too late. Don’t tell me they didn’t have a choice. Now the whole Europe stands on the brink, staring down into bloody Hell, all those reactionaries and nationalists and rabble-rousers… and all of a sudden nobody can think of anything to say.

Call their bluff. Show them what they are made of. Show them that the world has new rules now, and new rules. That the mob of the nation-state cannot impose its terms upon the cities any longer. That we would’ve been willing to share our riches if that had been the only thing they asked for, but of course it never truly was about the riches in the first place; no, it was jealousy and fear over our way of life, something they wanted to extinguish just as much as to simply loot.

Let this be the end of the EU, but not the new dawn of the nation-state. Instead…

The end of the nation-state and the new dawn of the free city.

London, be our Lucifer, our morningstar, to bear the light to a brighter future free from the oppression of democratic nationalism, nationalistic democracy!

So you still believe you are superior?

What odds do you put on Scotland getting independence within the next five years?

What’s your distribution over the GDP of the UK in the next ten years?

Also I think you are massively mischaracterizing Tribe R, in a totally unfair and honestly kind of mean-spirited way. I’ve met Trump voters. I don’t think they would turn the country into a backwards hellhole. Trump might, but whether his voters would is less obvious. You seem to think that everyone who might vote for Trump (or BREXIT) must be as bad a Trump or Nigel Farage. Tribe R is not made of evil mutants! They’re not going around, scheming about how to mug cities! They’re scared, and frustrated, and maybe ignorant, but they aren’t evil

Sure, you pay lip service to the “innocent” ones, but then you spend a dozen paragraphs talking about how awful the countryside is. It’s like when SJs go on a long rant about how all men are dangerous and uncontrolled, but they add a little note saying “Oh, but if you’re not like this then you’re fine and this doesn’t apply to you, teehee.”

This whole thing is just… really vindictive. I’m not sure I even disagree with your policy proposals (I have no idea what would happen if London seceded). But, like, the point of London leaving isn’t to punish those stupid poor people for daring to stand up for themselves. 

I know I’m being totally mean and petty and vindictive in this; if I hadn’t been totally fed up with nation-state democracy already Brexit would’ve been a pretty clear last straw. National democracy doesn’t work. This is what happens when you put people of starkly different tribes together and tell them the majority gets to decide. You get populists, looting, reactionaries, cronyism, and all kinds of bullshit.

I’m not from the UK, but Finland has a similar situation with tribe R as well. Why the fuck are they voting on my life? Why the fuck are a bunch of poor people from the provinces voting on my cosmopolitan urbanist opportunities? I’m not against sharing some of the wealth (although even in that department there’s way too much misspending; Finland could literally completely eradicate poverty with UBI and still cut its public sector by 6% of GDP) but I will not. fucking. submit.

The “poor people standing up for themselves” are doing it in a really shitty way. Trump might ruin the country, and he’s exactly the guy those people voted for, so “trump voters would ruin the country” is imo relatively justified considering that they’re voting for the guy who might ruin the country. They want protectionism, they want to reduce immigration, they want subsidies, they want all kinds of evil things.

Why would I owe them anything I don’t owe to a fruit peddler in Accra, or an assembly-line worker in Shenzen? Why would I owe them submission to their parochial values in addition to a huge share of the money they wouldn’t even allow me to make? Why would I owe them my life?

They protest that they are my compatriots, yet I am not anyone’s patriot. They yell that I’m from the same town; yes, they are the people who made a living hell of my childhood. I’m not even seeking to collect reparations for that; all I want is my freedom. All I want is for one country on this polished turd of a planet to not fall for the reactionary horde. One place where I could live free, among people who are not hostile to my very existence. I’m immigrants, I’m foreigners, I’m degenerates and queers and decadence and international trade and unregulated everything and all the things tribe R stands against everywhere. They would be so much happier amongst themselves, and so would I. Why on earth must everyone be locked into these nonconsensual hellholes of nation-states. The language is interesting but in the same way Quenya is; nothing that would entitle anyone to a piece of me. I’m expunging the names and places from my life; and even the accent I want to lose. Any ties they wish to enforce I’m willing to cut as soon as I can. Why would I owe them my life?

Why do we have to get along on pain of violence instead of going our own ways peacefully?

I might say that I’m triggered, if it wasn’t such a massive trivialization of triggers. I’m content-ed, perhaps. This shit. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, and their demands will not stop. They will never be satisfied until everything that makes my life possible is destroyed. They will pile on with endless demands that I must buy domestic pork instead of bolivian beans; that I should stay in my own country; that I owe everything to them; that they should be given the final say in everything about my life; that I have to beg them for mercy and permission alike for the sin of being different; the shadow over finnsmouth is hanging on my life and I’m afraid I can’t escape it before I can get off this planet altogether. Even then the leeches and moochers and bucketcrabs and poppycutters and redwashed rentiers might try to hang on, imposing space regulations from their strongholds on the old planet. And although I’m complaining about leeches and moochers I’d be more than thrilled to give them half of all the money I’ll ever make if that was the only thing they asked for in exchange for my freedom but they are never satisfied with just money no it’s my life they want and freedom must be extinguished.

If the world is so willing to hurt me, why would I owe it anything? My slytherin primary is flaring up really strongly and I’m in full self-defense panic mode. Me and Mine; destroy everything that tries to hurt these. Nothing personal that’s just the way it is just like everyone else “oh you’re harmed so massively by our well-meaning rules well too bad sucks to be you then it’s for the Greater Good and we know what it is not you” and I don’t even seek to destroy them all I want is to escape or fight with the viciousness of a cornered beast until I can yet I can’t because they control the whole world and they have the guns and the ballot boxes and the airwaves and the wiretaps in the backbone and they will keep coming and coming always demanding for more never satisfied while anything is still escaping their grasp and people are lucky to only lose their money for their only sin is having some but no such luck for my kind we are abominations and we must be eradicated for god and country and make everything great again

so yes I’m petty and vindictive because I’m fucking afraid of the normies and there’s nowhere to run and nowhere to hide

FINALLY SOME BREXIT DISCOURSE THAT DOESN’T MAKE ME CRINGE. 

Thank you…

Most honorable of enemies. 


And I will go back to the land. 


(Somewhat… angry scheming below cut)

Keep reading

Uh…okay…

I dunno, I’m not actually all for the post-apocalyptic traveling from township to township thing. I mean, if that happens, then good fucking luck with gun control at that point, for one thing. If anything, you’ll need guns in case Toecutter’s gang rolls into town looking to make a mess.

Plus, Oda Nobunaga and Jenghiz Khan were things. Eventually a new emperor may rise. America was born from 13 colonies. We may even yet see a true Earth Federation/New World Order established in our lifetimes even in spite of this. Point is, sometimes people cooperate and gain an advantage.

I do find it surprising that farmers and country people are apparently able to exert such influence on cities. I’d have assumed it was the other way ‘round: the city needs things like food and water to come from lands that aren’t paved over with concrete. Unless London plans to become a Hive City real soon with vertical farming.

City people can buy food and water, that’s not a problem (unless the country people spitefully besiege the city to loot it). The problem is politics; London has something like 7 million people while the rest of the country has over 45 iirc (I’m already counting out Scotland etc.). Thus the 45 million will vote to take not only London’s money but its freedom as well. Replacing the political relationship with an economic relationship would mean that the country (including all of the lesser cities as well) would only receive what it’s worth; London would choose where it buys its food from, and the maximum price of water would be limited to the cost of London achieving self-sufficiency.

Furthermore, this would mean that neither needs to impose its values upon the other. The Midlands don’t need to have free immigration or trade if they don’t want it, while London could open its borders for people and goods alike. London would grow richer, the Midlands would grow poorer, and that would be their own choice, not an external imposition. Or if I am wrong, the Midlands would prosper and London would fall. And as such I’d place my money where my mouth is, in a material statement of “I believe this will lead to good” and those who disagree could make their own claim and as long as neither imposes itself forcibly upon the other, the claim that is true will win and the claim that is false will lose, and thus both would perceive themselves as the winning side. The Midlands could protectionize their own industries and jobs as much as they want, but they could not use the threat of violence to force London to buy their inferior products over international ones.

And in the modern day cities are increasingly something that cannot truly be conquered; if someone were to invade London, all they could achieve would be the destruction of what made London an attractive target of invasion in the first place. The more the value of cities is volatile and immaterial, not tied to the land, the less sense it makes to conquer them. Bankers would flee, industries would be ruined, and the people under occupation who didn’t manage to escape don’t generate great entrepreneurial wealth to their occupiers. Both Nobunaga and Genghis were lords from the countryside, and all their kind would gain from invading London would be the ruins of one of the world’s greatest cities, ground to dust under their jackboots as the citizens of London would resist with drones, minifactured guns, and every kind of urban guerrilla warfare the deviousness of the modern day is able to come up with. They would invade London, and they would conquer Aleppo.

But what I don’t understand is why I would send inspectors to the hidden chapels? If you aren’t scheming to construct missiles to bring down our orbital cities, or dealing in the slavery of unwilling sapients, or tampering with things that could bring forth the destruction of the entire world, what reason would I have to intrude upon your peaceful ways? All I could ask for is that you let My People go, and like the God of Moses I would rain down wrath until they were freed, but anything more and I would be a tyrant myself. If those whose true happiness lies elsewhere are free to leave without you standing violently in their way, there would be need for nothing more, save for my sincere well-wishes for this new species which is obviously not mine yet deserving of sapient dignity and freedom to create its own fate without terror and tyrants just the same.

The aesthetic of this post pleases me greatly, but as a useless poor queer city-dweller I have to say that if you expect London’s secession to get rid of all disabled people mooching off social services, you’re dreadfully mistaken.

I am specifically not seeking to get rid of disabled people and social services. I have quite abundantly expressed everywhere that sharing the wealth is not a problem, and personally volunteered to pay a tax of 50% for such purposes if that was the thing that guaranteed freedom (in other words, enough for an absurdly huge UBI and targeted services to special groups who have extra-expensive needs they couldn’t afford otherwise).

My issue is with the people who try to do things that I see as 1) destroying the possibility of that wealth being created in the first place, as there can’t be sharing if there’s nothing to share (protectionism, excessive regulations, anti-immigration etc.; while getting rid of the EU is technically also ridding of a lot of those two I don’t think the nationalistic mood would be favorable for a true free-trade welfare minarchy) and 2) destroying the freedom of those who create the wealth; this reactionary populism harms great numbers of people and I don’t consider it at all okay that people come for my wallet *and* then also have the gall to tell me how to live. With violence. I don’t tell them how to live, I just want to give people the UBI and eradicate all the humiliating inhuman workfare and other evil things, but I want them to similarly stay out of my life just as I stay out of theirs.

Also, I don’t consider anyone who’s subsisting with less than a reasonable UBI a moocher; the thing that delivers them the money is highly sub-optimal but it’s not their fault. Moochers are those who want more than that despite not creating value to match; the protectionists who want to force me to buy their inferior products instead of better and cheaper things, just because they share some superficial genetic and cultural characteristics with me, the bureaucrats who want me to pay them money to meddle in my life, etc.

1 week ago · tagged #kill the leviathan #the best heuristic for oppressed people since sharp stick time · 59 notes · source: socialjusticemunchkin · .permalink


So you still believe you are ruling the World?

rocketverliden:

thathopeyetlives:

socialjusticemunchkin:

lisp-case-is-why-it-failed:

socialjusticemunchkin:

What if Brexit is the true end of the 20th century? What if instead of a resurgence of atavistic nationalism, this was the beginning of its final death throes?

Imagine Brexit tearing apart Britain as Scotland and Ireland separate into their own countries, London turns into a city-state like a (marginally less totalitarian) Singapore of Europe, hopefully also taking Oxford and Cambridge with it out of the rotten husk of an empire England has turned into.

It would suck horribly for innocent people in England, but it would have a certain spiteful sense of justice and vindication; the R tribe tried to impose its values on tribe U, but instead only managed to destroy its country in the name of making it great again. Nationalism dealing the killing blow to the empire which once ruled half the world. The R tribe relies on looting U regions with its “democracy” to fund the imposition of its reactionary worldview and there could be nothing better than for tribe U to turn R’s tricks against it by showing that exit is a two-way street.

Scotland becoming independent seems like almost a given; Irish unification is promising but London is the truly interesting one. If London were to secede, it would show that the nation-state is powerless in the face of global power. The old borders wouldn’t be safe anymore. If the City’s loyalty lies with the rest of the world instead of people sharing some superficial genetic and cultural characteristics, it might open the floodgates everywhere else as well and slay the 19-20th century leviathan for good.

A lot of people have expressed worry that this would be the resurgence of the nation-state and the end of the internationalist project.

I think this might just as well be the end of the nation-state instead.

The age of the nation-state began at the end of the medieval free cities, as cannons allowed kings of the countryside to enforce their rule on cities as well. The social-cultural construct of the nation-state happened in earnest when the nations began shedding their kings and unifying themselves, and it’s easy to see why people might then conclude that the nation-state is the natural endpoint of history to which things will always revert…

Pardon him, Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.

There is no inherent reason why nation-states would be the natural division of people.

Sure, when one looks at the maps, one can clearly see how Scotland is a naturally different polity than England and trying to forcibly keep them together is just asking for trouble.

But London is naturally different too. What does Sadiq Khan’s city have in common with the English UKIP-voting hordes who were willing to ruin their country because they hate brown people? A language, but San Francisco speaks the same language as London. Geographical location, but Ulster managed to stay separate from Ireland for a long time, and Singapore hasn’t been annexed by Malaysia. Political entity, but brexit has shown that polities can be reshaped by the will of the people constituting them.

Nation-states haven’t been a constant in history, but cities have. Every time it has been technologically and societally possible, humans have flocked together and increased each other’s prosperity with trade and cooperation. Democratic nation-states are economically artificial, kept together by barely disguised force; the Paris Commune was brought down by the king’s cannons, not by its own economic infeasibility. The history of the nation-state can be seen as the countryside gaining a capability to loot the cities, and constructing fictions to support this; now what happens if that capability is gone?

When one looks at the data, cities are clearly a different animal from the countryside. Wealthy, liberal, cosmopolitan, globalist. London has far more things in common with Amsterdam and New York than with the English countryside, and in a sense the relationship between the city and the countryside leeching off it via the nation-state is always inherently under a certain tension; now what happens if this is the last straw?

Why should London be loyal to England, when England has shown itself able and willing to only ever take and take? When Scotland tears apart from the union, London’s northern ally in internationalism will be gone and it will be ever more isolated, surrounded by people who are all too willing to enjoy the fruits of London’s prosperity yet completely unwilling to contribute to it, even the bare minimum amount of not actively sabotaging the things that make such prosperity possible in the first place. The story of Atlas Shrugged is naive in its individualistic hero-worship, but replace the few greater-than-life personalities with millions of people, and Galt’s Gulch with London and it starts making a strange amount of sense.

If London were to leave England to the mess of its own making, it would deal a humiliating blow to the countryside, itself grown fat off the loot from the cities and fearful of immigrants and foreigners, the exact people who created the riches the countryside has for so long been stealing through the ballot box. And it’s not like the cities are even unwilling to share their riches; and it certainly might be different if all the countryside asked for was some money so it doesn’t starve, but the countryside is not satisfied with material sharing; what it truly wants is submission.

Like a classical abusive partner, the countryside has always been telling the city it cannot survive alone, yet in reality only the threat of violence is the only thing maintaining the relationship. The countryside stays at home, growing ever more unemployed and useless, while the city is working hard to feed them both. The countryside continuously stalks the city whenever it leaves the house, suspicious of everything the city is doing with foreigners, prone to jealous fits of anger whenever the city doesn’t submit sufficiently to its will. “What are you doing with those foreigners and immigrants? Do you not love me? I am your only one, nobody else may have you!”

Why doesn’t the city just leave?

As usual, the immediate reason is that the dangers of leaving are greater than the dangers of staying. “Sure, the countryside is under a lot of stress but deep down it loves me and after all, it’s not that bad, at least compared to what it would do to me if I tried to dump it; remember what happened to poor Paris?” But if the countryside grows abusive enough, its threats empty enough, the city’s allies strong enough to protect it from its ex, would the city still stay?

I hope the answer is no, and I hope the last straw will be here and now.

If the countryside is so blatantly willing to impose its rottenness on the cities, let it rot away. If democracy creates reactionary atavistic nation-states, to hell with democratic states then. Tribe R doesn’t create the wealth, yet it will always demand its share. “Buy American!” “Britain first!” “Auslander raus!” “Rajat kiinni!” Tribe R will happily take tribe U’s money, but it will reject its values and seek to impose its own. Via the democratic majority rule of the nation-state this strategy has always seen a degree of success; the amount of liberty that’s legal in cities has always been constrained by the conservative countryside. This is clearly an abusive relationship, now what if the cannon marriage of city and country were finally broken?

If London said “no”, would 2016 idly watch by like 1871? What rhetorical pretzels would the nationalists tie themselves into as “fellow brits” rejected their nightmarish utopia? “But you were supposed to be one of us” they would say, and London would whisper “no”. What if the reactionary populism was shown to be the blatant robbery it is? What if England was left to its own devices, without London’s money and influence? The populists could not make Britain great again; they would trash their own country and come begging for foreign aid at London’s doorstep. Without tribe U, tribe R is nothing but a raving bunch of barbarians. A country made solely of Clinton’s voters would still be a global power; a country made solely of Trump’s voters would be a backwards hellhole.

And if tribe R is willing to tear apart political structures at its whims, I say let them have a taste of their own medicine. If they would split the “artificial fiction” of the EU, let us split the artificial fiction of Britain! Let us leave them to their own devices, wallowing in a misery of their own creation. They had a choice, all of them. They could have followed in the footsteps of the IWW or Adam Smith. Decent people who believed in the common good of international cooperation without borders. Instead they followed the droppings of demagogues and populists and didn’t realize that the trail led over a precipice until it was too late. Don’t tell me they didn’t have a choice. Now the whole Europe stands on the brink, staring down into bloody Hell, all those reactionaries and nationalists and rabble-rousers… and all of a sudden nobody can think of anything to say.

Call their bluff. Show them what they are made of. Show them that the world has new rules now, and new rules. That the mob of the nation-state cannot impose its terms upon the cities any longer. That we would’ve been willing to share our riches if that had been the only thing they asked for, but of course it never truly was about the riches in the first place; no, it was jealousy and fear over our way of life, something they wanted to extinguish just as much as to simply loot.

Let this be the end of the EU, but not the new dawn of the nation-state. Instead…

The end of the nation-state and the new dawn of the free city.

London, be our Lucifer, our morningstar, to bear the light to a brighter future free from the oppression of democratic nationalism, nationalistic democracy!

So you still believe you are superior?

What odds do you put on Scotland getting independence within the next five years?

What’s your distribution over the GDP of the UK in the next ten years?

Also I think you are massively mischaracterizing Tribe R, in a totally unfair and honestly kind of mean-spirited way. I’ve met Trump voters. I don’t think they would turn the country into a backwards hellhole. Trump might, but whether his voters would is less obvious. You seem to think that everyone who might vote for Trump (or BREXIT) must be as bad a Trump or Nigel Farage. Tribe R is not made of evil mutants! They’re not going around, scheming about how to mug cities! They’re scared, and frustrated, and maybe ignorant, but they aren’t evil

Sure, you pay lip service to the “innocent” ones, but then you spend a dozen paragraphs talking about how awful the countryside is. It’s like when SJs go on a long rant about how all men are dangerous and uncontrolled, but they add a little note saying “Oh, but if you’re not like this then you’re fine and this doesn’t apply to you, teehee.”

This whole thing is just… really vindictive. I’m not sure I even disagree with your policy proposals (I have no idea what would happen if London seceded). But, like, the point of London leaving isn’t to punish those stupid poor people for daring to stand up for themselves. 

I know I’m being totally mean and petty and vindictive in this; if I hadn’t been totally fed up with nation-state democracy already Brexit would’ve been a pretty clear last straw. National democracy doesn’t work. This is what happens when you put people of starkly different tribes together and tell them the majority gets to decide. You get populists, looting, reactionaries, cronyism, and all kinds of bullshit.

I’m not from the UK, but Finland has a similar situation with tribe R as well. Why the fuck are they voting on my life? Why the fuck are a bunch of poor people from the provinces voting on my cosmopolitan urbanist opportunities? I’m not against sharing some of the wealth (although even in that department there’s way too much misspending; Finland could literally completely eradicate poverty with UBI and still cut its public sector by 6% of GDP) but I will not. fucking. submit.

The “poor people standing up for themselves” are doing it in a really shitty way. Trump might ruin the country, and he’s exactly the guy those people voted for, so “trump voters would ruin the country” is imo relatively justified considering that they’re voting for the guy who might ruin the country. They want protectionism, they want to reduce immigration, they want subsidies, they want all kinds of evil things.

Why would I owe them anything I don’t owe to a fruit peddler in Accra, or an assembly-line worker in Shenzen? Why would I owe them submission to their parochial values in addition to a huge share of the money they wouldn’t even allow me to make? Why would I owe them my life?

They protest that they are my compatriots, yet I am not anyone’s patriot. They yell that I’m from the same town; yes, they are the people who made a living hell of my childhood. I’m not even seeking to collect reparations for that; all I want is my freedom. All I want is for one country on this polished turd of a planet to not fall for the reactionary horde. One place where I could live free, among people who are not hostile to my very existence. I’m immigrants, I’m foreigners, I’m degenerates and queers and decadence and international trade and unregulated everything and all the things tribe R stands against everywhere. They would be so much happier amongst themselves, and so would I. Why on earth must everyone be locked into these nonconsensual hellholes of nation-states. The language is interesting but in the same way Quenya is; nothing that would entitle anyone to a piece of me. I’m expunging the names and places from my life; and even the accent I want to lose. Any ties they wish to enforce I’m willing to cut as soon as I can. Why would I owe them my life?

Why do we have to get along on pain of violence instead of going our own ways peacefully?

I might say that I’m triggered, if it wasn’t such a massive trivialization of triggers. I’m content-ed, perhaps. This shit. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, and their demands will not stop. They will never be satisfied until everything that makes my life possible is destroyed. They will pile on with endless demands that I must buy domestic pork instead of bolivian beans; that I should stay in my own country; that I owe everything to them; that they should be given the final say in everything about my life; that I have to beg them for mercy and permission alike for the sin of being different; the shadow over finnsmouth is hanging on my life and I’m afraid I can’t escape it before I can get off this planet altogether. Even then the leeches and moochers and bucketcrabs and poppycutters and redwashed rentiers might try to hang on, imposing space regulations from their strongholds on the old planet. And although I’m complaining about leeches and moochers I’d be more than thrilled to give them half of all the money I’ll ever make if that was the only thing they asked for in exchange for my freedom but they are never satisfied with just money no it’s my life they want and freedom must be extinguished.

If the world is so willing to hurt me, why would I owe it anything? My slytherin primary is flaring up really strongly and I’m in full self-defense panic mode. Me and Mine; destroy everything that tries to hurt these. Nothing personal that’s just the way it is just like everyone else “oh you’re harmed so massively by our well-meaning rules well too bad sucks to be you then it’s for the Greater Good and we know what it is not you” and I don’t even seek to destroy them all I want is to escape or fight with the viciousness of a cornered beast until I can yet I can’t because they control the whole world and they have the guns and the ballot boxes and the airwaves and the wiretaps in the backbone and they will keep coming and coming always demanding for more never satisfied while anything is still escaping their grasp and people are lucky to only lose their money for their only sin is having some but no such luck for my kind we are abominations and we must be eradicated for god and country and make everything great again

so yes I’m petty and vindictive because I’m fucking afraid of the normies and there’s nowhere to run and nowhere to hide

FINALLY SOME BREXIT DISCOURSE THAT DOESN’T MAKE ME CRINGE. 

Thank you…

Most honorable of enemies. 


And I will go back to the land. 


(Somewhat… angry scheming below cut)

Keep reading

Uh…okay…

I dunno, I’m not actually all for the post-apocalyptic traveling from township to township thing. I mean, if that happens, then good fucking luck with gun control at that point, for one thing. If anything, you’ll need guns in case Toecutter’s gang rolls into town looking to make a mess.

Plus, Oda Nobunaga and Jenghiz Khan were things. Eventually a new emperor may rise. America was born from 13 colonies. We may even yet see a true Earth Federation/New World Order established in our lifetimes even in spite of this. Point is, sometimes people cooperate and gain an advantage.

I do find it surprising that farmers and country people are apparently able to exert such influence on cities. I’d have assumed it was the other way ‘round: the city needs things like food and water to come from lands that aren’t paved over with concrete. Unless London plans to become a Hive City real soon with vertical farming.

City people can buy food and water, that’s not a problem (unless the country people spitefully besiege the city to loot it). The problem is politics; London has something like 7 million people while the rest of the country has over 45 iirc (I’m already counting out Scotland etc.). Thus the 45 million will vote to take not only London’s money but its freedom as well. Replacing the political relationship with an economic relationship would mean that the country (including all of the lesser cities as well) would only receive what it’s worth; London would choose where it buys its food from, and the maximum price of water would be limited to the cost of London achieving self-sufficiency.

Furthermore, this would mean that neither needs to impose its values upon the other. The Midlands don’t need to have free immigration or trade if they don’t want it, while London could open its borders for people and goods alike. London would grow richer, the Midlands would grow poorer, and that would be their own choice, not an external imposition. Or if I am wrong, the Midlands would prosper and London would fall. And as such I’d place my money where my mouth is, in a material statement of “I believe this will lead to good” and those who disagree could make their own claim and as long as neither imposes itself forcibly upon the other, the claim that is true will win and the claim that is false will lose, and thus both would perceive themselves as the winning side. The Midlands could protectionize their own industries and jobs as much as they want, but they could not use the threat of violence to force London to buy their inferior products over international ones.

And in the modern day cities are increasingly something that cannot truly be conquered; if someone were to invade London, all they could achieve would be the destruction of what made London an attractive target of invasion in the first place. The more the value of cities is volatile and immaterial, not tied to the land, the less sense it makes to conquer them. Bankers would flee, industries would be ruined, and the people under occupation who didn’t manage to escape don’t generate great entrepreneurial wealth to their occupiers. Both Nobunaga and Genghis were lords from the countryside, and all their kind would gain from invading London would be the ruins of one of the world’s greatest cities, ground to dust under their jackboots as the citizens of London would resist with drones, minifactured guns, and every kind of urban guerrilla warfare the deviousness of the modern day is able to come up with. They would invade London, and they would conquer Aleppo.

But what I don’t understand is why I would send inspectors to the hidden chapels? If you aren’t scheming to construct missiles to bring down our orbital cities, or dealing in the slavery of unwilling sapients, or tampering with things that could bring forth the destruction of the entire world, what reason would I have to intrude upon your peaceful ways? All I could ask for is that you let My People go, and like the God of Moses I would rain down wrath until they were freed, but anything more and I would be a tyrant myself. If those whose true happiness lies elsewhere are free to leave without you standing violently in their way, there would be need for nothing more, save for my sincere well-wishes for this new species which is obviously not mine yet deserving of sapient dignity and freedom to create its own fate without terror and tyrants just the same.

(via rocketverliden)

1 week ago · tagged #kill the leviathan #the best heuristic for oppressed people since sharp stick time · 59 notes · source: socialjusticemunchkin · .permalink


argumate:

tooth-and-nails said: You mean all of us until we get legal acceptance?

government can just not define legal gender, problem solved!

just means impossible to define gender equality legislation

Sounds great, where do I sign up? Treating people as people, not genders, is pretty important and this would put an end to the state treating people as genders. And when it comes to the discrimination and biases that would nonetheless remain, well, I don’t think the state would be able to help there anyway. If it is allowed to do social engineering, it will socialengineer against progress; all actual development happens outside the state anyway.

1 week ago · tagged #the best heuristic for oppressed people since sharp stick time · 9 notes · source: argumate · .permalink


Paypal’s new honeypot scheme for adult content creators

hungerhell:

So they added a new “digital adult content” drop-down item to select in your Paypal business options but when you choose it your account will immediately be closed down. Just letting everyone know so they don’t get tricked! Even though this is a selectable item IT IS STILL ILLEGAL AND AGAINST PAYPAL POLICY TO SELL “SEXUALLY ORIENTED MATERIALS OR SERVICES”

asfdgsafsh

somebody outcompete the prudes and regulators of this pos corp

oh wait they can’t it’s probably illegal

somebody outcompete the prudes and regulators of this pos gov

(via metagorgon)

1 week ago · tagged #sex workers' rights are rights not wrongs #the best heuristic for oppressed people since sharp stick time · 37,522 notes · source: hungerhell · .permalink


trashworks:

qwantzfeed:

nice state you’ve got there; it’d be a shame if anyone… SMASHED IT

police is not the best example of socialization…

it’s kind of literally the worst example of socialization it is possible to have. clearly this lime-green Tyrannosaurus rex hasn’t been keeping up with race relations, the “drug war”, the “terrorism war”, surveillance, and the constant erosion of civil liberties.

that’s just the US.

The entire point of PoliceMob is to enforce harmful stuff and pass the costs to others; non-harmful stuff that people Actually Want to enforce could get done anyway (eg. I don’t want people to get murdered, and thus I will support the enforcement of “nobody gets murdered”, but I wouldn’t pay shit to the enforcement of “nobody smokes weed” if I wasn’t forced to do it at gunpoint)

1 week ago · tagged #shitposting #the best heuristic for oppressed people since sharp stick time · 2,581 notes · .permalink


How the EU starves Africa into submission - CapX

(capx.co)

commissarchrisman:

It is estimated that Africa imports nearly 83 per cent of its food. African leaders are seeking ways to feed their peoples and become players in the global economy.

In the second edition of The New Harvest: Agricultural Innovation in Africa, I argue that Africa can feed itself in a generation. However, efforts to achieve such an ambitious goal continue to be frustrated by policies adopted by Africa’s historical trading partners, especially the European Union.

There are at least three ways in which EU policies affect Africa’s ability to address its agricultural and food challenges: tariff escalation; technological innovation and food export preferences.

African leaders would like to escape the colonial trap of being viewed simply as raw material exporters. But their efforts to add value to the materials continue to be frustrated by existing EU policies.

Take the example of coffee. In 2014 Africa —the home of coffee— earned nearly $2.4 billion from the crop. Germany, a leading processor, earned about $3.8 billion from coffee re-exports.

The concern is not that Germany benefits from processing coffee. It is that Africa is punished by EU tariff barriers for doing so. Non-decaffeinated green coffee is exempt from the charges. However, a 7.5 per cent charge is imposed on roasted coffee. As a result, the bulk of Africa’s export to the EU is unroasted green coffee.

The charge on cocoa is even more debilitating. It is reported that the “EU charges (a tariff) of 30 per cent for processed cocoa products like chocolate bars or cocoa powder, and 60 per cent for some other refined products containing cocoa.”

The impact of such charges goes well beyond lost export opportunities. They suppress technological innovation and industrial development among African countries. The practice denies the continent the ability to acquire, adopt and diffuse technologies used in food processing. It explains to some extent the low level of investment in Africa’s food processing enterprises.

The EU is an evil empire, government aroundfucking in the economy hurts some of the worst-off people in the world, and rich hippies are ruining everything; news at eleven.

(via multiheaded1793)

1 week ago · tagged #i'm only angry at the left because i care about the poor #the best heuristic for oppressed people since sharp stick time #is this what yelling at the 'blue tribe' feels like? · 197 notes · source: commissarchrisman · .permalink


.next